Date: 05/03/2012 07:22 AM Title: Harry Potter and the Unwinnable Fight
okay. now, fair warning, i am NOT a trio shipper. i suppose it's one thing if all three of them are in love with each other, i could probably accept it.
but that's not the case here (not yet anyway). i'm looking at harry/hermione's apology to ron. was the sex inevitable? probably. but the issue is compounded in this fic.
maybe sex was inevitable, but that doesn't change the betrayal and harry/hermione seem way too eager to get ron to understand and forgive. almost as if they're putting their own feelings before considering his. as ron says, they knew what they were doing was wrong. them loving each otheror them thinking they were stuck there doesn't make it right in the slightest. inevitable, but not right.
and then we get to the love thing. this...i don't know if it makes it better or worse. because a part of me almost does believe two people stuck together like that would inevitably fall in love. but you know what? i don't see it as a good thing like hermione tells harry. for one, it almost degrades their love. it reminds me almost of stockholm syndrome, that it only could've happened under these crazy circumstances. of cours, if they could've found out some other way, then that makes them even guiltier for starting up in the first place.
but the reason i think it's a bad thing is the end game. okay, maybe not if there's a trio sequel (though what happens to ginny?), but otherwise, yeah. harry has to watch hermione with ron everyday, loving her and not having her. same for hermione & harry. and ron also sees that between them every time they talk or touch or whatever.
i knw the whole 'loved and lost better than never loved at all' thing. but this isn't love lost. this is love with a glass wall in between. i don't see how all of them won't experience the same guilt harry and hermione did while in the other world.
and for all hermione's intelignece, she sounds really, really dumb talking about the virginity stuff. this is actually the one thing i don't get, you being a guy. are there guys who care about getting to break a girl's hymen? yes. but you'd be hard-pressed to find a guy who doesn't care MORE about all the other stuff in sharing a first time. THAT'S what's been denied ron, and what hermione and magic will never fix. hell, my heart breaks for ron all over again at the end when he asks hermione the names. she's going to do the EXACT SAME THING she did with harry. and they will both know it. that's what's so fucked up.
okay i'm probably sounding like i'm complaining, and i'm sorry because this is very powerful story. so let me make that clear. but i did want to bitch slap hermione when she told ron she'd never have another man if ron didn't want her. she made it 24 days. she's a nut if she thinks she can go FOREVER, especilly now, knowing what it's like.
and the forgiveness happens way too fast. for one, i don't believe ron couldn't handle hearing about h/hr in that detailed a maner from harry. and that shared minds thing just seems way too convenient in speeding up the recovery process. it doesn't even give ron the chance to be upset which he NEEDS to be. we deal with weeks of harry and hermione's torment and ron gets about 10 paragraphs?
and finally, why does ron have to be with hermione if he loves her? harry isn't (not yet), so why does ron have to? can't he love her from afar?
i guess i just hate that ron is always the one who gets shafted in pretty much any fic that doesn't stick exactly to canon. in harry/hermione, ron always gets thrown over. hermione gets two men's love and ron doesn't even get hermione all to himself. i do love the reality of life being unfair, but, seriously, it's always more unfair to RON than anyone else.
someone needs to write a fic where harry has a sister that ron can bang.
Wow! This is a HUGE, deep, meaty review, and I really appreciate you taking the time and putting in the thought to offer it.
How you feel is how you feel; there's not much I can do about that. That said there are a couple of specific points you bring up that I do want to address.
First, I really want to emphasize that there's a difference between Ron have grown and matured enough to ba able to recognize that he still loves them both even while he's overwhelmed by their betrayal of him, and forgiving them. He's only starting, in the epilogue, to really forgive, and even tghereafter, it's going to be a long, slow process. The fact that he can put aside his rage and do what's right, including admitting that, through his rage, he still loves his friend, doesn't mean that the rage is all over with, and I certainly tried to protray that.
If I ever get to writing it, there'll be a sequel called "Slouching Toward Forgiveness" that will cover more of that.
The significance of the hymen thing isn't that men give a particular damn about it one way or another. It's a symbolic pledge. What's important isn't really tearing flesh and a bit of blood: it's Hermione's commitment to Ron. It's her acknowledgment that she wronged him, and is placing herself in his hands.
Likewise, I don't think that what Harry and Hermione do is so much apologize -- although they clearly do express their regret for betraying and hurting Ron -- as simply give him what he was asking for: the reality of what they experienced. They don't offer any excuses, they don't offer any justifications. They just provide him with the truth of what happened.
Lastly, I don't feel that Ron gets shafted. Ron dedicates himself to bringing his best friend and the woman he loves back, and he achieves that. In the process, he grows and matures as a person, and while he still has problems, he builds himself a context in which to work through and solve them, slowly, with a lot of hard work, as it should be, but with his friends, who have always been, even when they betrayed him, devoted to him, and deeply loving him. A lot of people go their whole lives with a lot less.
Date: 10/10/2011 12:14 AM Title: Harry Potter and the Unwinnable Fight
I've never felt so awkward while reading a good story, and that is to be taken as a compliment. :)
Author's Response: I completely understand the feeling, and I'm very pleased with the compliment, so thank you!
Date: 07/26/2010 11:48 PM Title: Harry Potter and the Unwinnable Fight
This story was ridiculous. I can buy Harry and Hermione getting together in that limbo they were in. But Ron forgiving them both? Ron hated Viktor for just writing letters to Hermione, but he and Harry are still best mates? Ron's biggest weakness is his insecurity, and he's going to be with Hermione when she tells him that she's in love with Harry, too? Are you kidding me?
Author's Response: It's called character growth. Ron is not the same man at the end of this story that he was in the beginning, much less in the early parts of OotP. Sorry it didn't work for you.
Date: 09/04/2009 04:28 AM Title: Harry Potter and the Unwinnable Fight
Hmmm I can appreciate the feelings that Ron went through. I guess I'm not cut out to be a full Trio fan in the Broomshed sense on this website heh. Objectively I must say you write well though. :)
Author's Response: Thanks for reading and reviewing. This is a hard story for a lot of readers, because it is absolutely a story of betrayal. I like to think it is also a story of finding strength to go on, and of learning to be an adult who can take the rough with the smooth, but that betrayal is at the core of it. I don't consider this story to be Trio, although that is where I see the future for these characters in the wake of this story. There may be sequels.
Date: 02/08/2009 04:48 PM Title: Harry Potter and the Unwinnable Fight
i thought that i had put in a review for this right after i read it but seein' as i didn't here goes: THIS STORY ROCKS!!!!! omg!!!! i have to say that harry was a bit too naive for my taste...but then again he grew up with the dursleys and they really didnt teach him anything. but i guess i thought that he would have known SOMETHING. but then again his naievity made him all the more desirable; like u wanted to reach in there and teach him every thing he needed to know and then some and pulling that kind of emotion from a reader is the mark of a good writer so...kudos to u on that. i also liked the interactions between ron and krum. it's always good to know that two men will put all differences aside when the woman they love is in danger. i admire them both and their mutal respect. bravo. now i must say...i am a big fan of harry/hermione hotness. we all know in the end that she marries ron and he marries ginny and everyone lives happily ever yadda yadda yadda and we move on. but i seem to enjoy harry and hermione pairings becuz i see it as something that actually could have been and would've been great if they acted on it. they make for a very interesting couple and i cant help but wonder what would have been if she hadnt fallen for ron. i enjoyed their togetherness....it was very hot. all in all i really enjoyed this story. keep up the good work.
Author's Response: Thanks very much for reading and reviewing! In this universe, I don't think Harry and Ginny will ever be back together. And Ron will still have a lot of baggage to work through as well... But I think they'll end up, all three of them, in a much better place, as Ron learns to truly accept his own words to Hermione in the epilogue.
Date: 04/22/2008 07:58 PM Title: Harry Potter and the Unwinnable Fight
I'm bleary-eyed with exhaustion, but I couldn't stop reading this. Harry was a little too naive for my liking, but overall, the story was wonderful.
And I agree--Ron's no one's sidekick.
Author's Response: Thank you so much for the kind words. I really do appreciate them.
I know it's a long, long story, and it's kind of anfair to drag you the whole length of it without chapter breaks, but, well, that's how I saw it, all of a piece, even though I presented it to readers on my LJ in 10 "parts." Thanks for slogging on through!
Date: 09/25/2007 12:48 PM Title: Harry Potter and the Unwinnable Fight
First off, I get the L'Engle comparison, though it also made me think of Slaughterhouse Five (the outer-space parts). Only, H & H are even more isolated. I was disturbed by how and how much Hermione punishes herself, and I almost stopped reading, but I decided to trust you and keep going. I'm glad I did. It's still disturbing but the angst is very powerful and well-handled.
I found Harry a bit too passive and gentle, more Book 6 than Book 7 if that makes sense. And would he really be that ignorant about women? I know you've written him that way elsewhere, and it's certainly more plausible than when people write him as a savvy super-stud, but it seems like he would know more than that. I do like how you handled his feelings for Hermione, and his desire was sexier than in some of your other stories, because it overpowered him, no matter how he fought it.
Ron was good but more forgiving/understanding of everyone, including Viktor than I'd expect. I think if he caught H & H cuddling, post sex, everyone's reactions would be a bit more plausible. It's like they immediately forgot they were fucking until he reminded them. Maybe that's to do with the weird planet/spa they're on but everyone accepted it more than I'd expect.
I like your take on Viktor, though I hadn't ever thought of his father as rich or Muggle-hating. But bravo to Viktor for being so likable and down to earth despite that.
I like that you didn't divide this up into chapters. I think given the way that the world/story went in circles, it couldn't be divided. It had to just go on and on till the end. Even with the shifts in POV, the situation was inescapable.
The only problem is, it's harder to isolate specific parts for commenting on, compared to if it had divisions. So I'll just conclude by saying that, despite my criticisms, you did good with a hard story.
I really need to read the late Ms. L'Engle. Hermione's self-abuse was incredibly disturbing to me, and incredibly hard to write.
Do please remember that this story was written more than a year ago. The Harry I had to work with then was, indeed, book six, not seven.
I agree with your criticism of Ron's forgiving Harry and Hermione. Not so much Krum, who he went to "hat in hand" looking for help, and was treated with great magninimity and then real friendship.
The story did appear on my LJ in 10 parts, presented as I wrote them, but I always saw it as a single, unchaptered fic. It can be read in ten chapters at The Restrivted Section.
Thanks so much for the very kind and cogent words. I heartily appreciate them.
Date: 02/11/2007 11:27 PM Title: Harry Potter and the Unwinnable Fight
And I just have to add one other comment I'd meant to mention, but somehow clicked "submit" before doing it.
After seeing the recent photos promoting a certain West End play that opens soon, if I were Hermione standed in that sort of situtation with Harry . . .
Well, I'll just say she is a MUCH stronger person than I am because I expect I'd have been saying "Ron who?" 15 minutes after we'd arrived there.
But you're a guy, and I'm sure you're wondering why I felt compelled to mention that in a review of one of your stories. I mention it because it was all I could see in my mind while I read what you'd written about how Hermione kept steeling looks at Harry's body...kind of like me and those pictures.
Author's Response: Yeah, if my photoshopping skills were better, I can easily see taking one of those shots -- the one with Joanna Christie holding Dan from behind -- and making it Harry and Hermione in the Empty Universe. So I thank Dan and Joanna and teh folks behind Equus for creating some nice promotional material for my story! LOL!
And, because I forgot to mention it to you:
I'm so glad the sex scenes worked for you. I was very nervous, beign a guy, writing sex from a woman's point of view, so I'm always gratified to hear good words about it from a female reader!
And, boy, as much as I'm loving these reviews, I'm almost sorry you read this story, at this point, because I WANT THE NEXT CHAPTER OFTHAT NEED!
Oh, and none of that nonsense from your review of "Unbreakable Bond" about you not being a good writer. You're wonderful. Ron's trick with the Honey.... Oh, man!
Date: 02/11/2007 11:20 PM Title: Harry Potter and the Unwinnable Fight
Again, WOW ... I think you've been "wowing" me off and on all day (and I really SHOULD be sleeping now). Knickers are still in my purse...although I actually need a dry pair now as well (I had a feeling your sex scenes would be my undoing) ... and now this is 2 stories where you've made me talk about my knickers, and again, I don't normally mention them in reviews (although you were quite right...that is the entire point of this stuff). And I did friend you on LJ, so friend me back so I can read your stuff that's there, but I'll warn you ahead of time before you look for things that aren't there...I really don't have a clue yet how to use LJ. I actually set up the account in the beginning so I could read more of Shocolate's work (also an awesome writer, but I think I've seen where you already know that, right?).
But back to this story, it was awesome on so many levels, not the least of which I think was that it was in perfect canon. I mean, I know JKR doesn't actually include sex in her books, but I can so easily see Harry & Hermione feeling and fighting the pull of attraction, and poor Ron willing to risk anything to get to them. And his sense of betrayal upon finding them...I know I told you earlier today Ron would do anything for Harry and I could see him sharing Hermione with him...and I can...but I see it as having been by his choice, so I agree it would be difficult for him to deal with it once it had become reality without him having a say in the matter.
You know I love Trio, and I think you have this set up SO WELL to go into a Trio sequel. Ginny won't or can't forgive Harry; Ron knows Hermione love him, but she still loves Harry as well, and Ron can't bear to see Harry alone (and maybe he remembers how it good felt when Viktor touched him-even though the idea bothered him-and he wonders how that would be WITH Harry, instead of a sacrifice he made for Harry). And Harry did say he wished he could do that with Ron...
I probably wouldn't mind seeing your Viktor with the Trio in another setting, but I don't think so in this story. In this story, I can see scenes of Viktor wanking alone (very slowly and erotically) in his castle as he feels Ron with Hermione, or with Harry and Hermione (can he feel them now too, since the Trio sort of expanded that connection in order to get them all back?)
Or maybe he could be visiting the Trio at Grimmauld Place since he's now Ron's friend, in addition to being Hermione's friend (and I think in GOF we saw he has a healthy respect for Harry as well), and maybe he could be wanking in a guest room there while they make love in a room nearby, and Ron (or they, if the connection was expanded to all of them) could feel Viktor's hands on himself...yeah, I like it that way...and maybe Ginny could wander into Viktor's room (obviously, you'll need to have built up some sexual tension between them already) and this could be the start of a relationship between them perhaps (I mean, after Harry, you can't just have her settling for Neville or Seamus. At the very least, give her Draco, but I'm thinking Viktor might make a better match for her.
OH...and it's all YOUR FAULT...I didn't ever get my next chapter posted to That Need because I spent all day reading (and re-reading) your stuff!!! Maybe tomorrow...oh, wait...it IS tomorrow now.
I gotta get some sleep...G'night!
Author's Response: Oh, Jamie, you are just blowing me away with your reviews! Thank you so much!
It's clear that we see eye-to-eye on the characters of Harry, Ron and Hermione, and their relationships, all four of them. Seeing how much they long for one another, Ron would probably be offering to let Harry and Hermione be together right now -- And, of course, getting scolded by Hermione for thinking he can pass her around like a party favor, while Harry panics and backs off, and beats himself up even more for disrupting their relationship -- but his hurt sense of betrayal and rage won't let him.
There's a mini-sequel, not quite in the works, called "Slouching Towards Forgiveness," in which Remus Lupin will help Ron see past his anger and insecurity to a workable solution.
And the scenes you mentioned for a sequel fit in awfully well with a smutty/fluffy one I've pondered, because, yes, Viktor is now linked with all of them, and while everyone is learning some occlumency as a result, they always have some of this awareness.
And Viktor/Ginny is an idea that appeals to me, now that I think about it. That could be a great solution!
Thanks again, so very much, for this wonderful review.
(And, yes, you've been friended on LJ, and into my "Gets to read the Smut" group, so stop by and say "Howdy!")
Date: 12/23/2006 01:31 AM Title: Harry Potter and the Unwinnable Fight
That was.... odd. I think. I honestly can't tell you if I likied it or not. But I can tell you that once I started reading it, I couldn't stop until I finished. So good job writing! lol.
Author's Response: Thanks! This was, far and away, the most controversial story I've written. It doesn't fall neatly into any of the usual "ships" and has characters we like doing things we don't. I've been told it's a slap in hte face to H/Hr and a betrayal of R/Hr and,well.... IT seems to hit readers where they live.
I, of course, am delighted to hear that!
So thanks for the review, and I really appreciate that it was affecting to you.
Date: 12/20/2006 06:20 PM Title: Harry Potter and the Unwinnable Fight
You know what I think so far but I'm just going to sum it up here by saying that this is by far my favourie Harry and Hermione are intimate fic.
Author's Response: Thank you so much! Between your kind words herre and on IM, I'm overwhelmed with the generosity of your review!
Date: 10/14/2006 08:37 AM Title: Harry Potter and the Unwinnable Fight
That was so fun to read. It did take me a few sitting. I LOL at Bob being a headmaster. In fact I laughing so hard I had tears in my eyes. Praise Bob. I liked how you took everything out of the universe to be able to only focus on the emotions. That was such a creative idea. This was very imaginative and fun to read. I so liked the friendship between Victor and Ron.
Author's Response: I'm so glad you recognized Mr. Prince-Hedges' other identity! Yes, I had the image, but never thought as far until just now, but he is, indeed, Bob!
I liked how you took everything out of the universe to be able to only focus on the emotions. That was such a creative idea.
I'm so pleased that you said that! When I started writing, I was half-afraid it would come off as self-impressed, self-indulgent, pretentious, "Waiting-for-Godot"-wannabe tripe! So whenever someone mentions it working for them, I appreciate it.
I so liked the friendship between Victor and Ron.
Me, too. They were such a fun team to write.
So thank you, thank you, thank you, for hte very kind review!
Date: 09/15/2006 06:49 AM Title: Harry Potter and the Unwinnable Fight
"I honestly hadn't thought of dealing Viktor a card in that relationship..."Hmm. <smiles evilly>So this bit"[Viktor’s] potion-slick hand wrapped around Ron's penis, and slid gently to its end. As it did every day, the organ stood immediately to attention, and as he did every day, Ron blushed. ....Viktor's hands worked their way down…massaging the potion into Ron's buttocks, which were as round and pretty as a girl's…[Oh, baby!] So Viktor reached back again, sank his spread fingers [am I picking up something Freudian here?] into the potion-pot, and leaned forward. Ron groaned as Viktor used the thumb and forefinger of his dry hand to part his buttocks, and then the blunt middle finger, slick and moist with potion, was gently circling his anus. …"At least it doesn't hurt." Almost better if it did, thought Ron. But the sensation was a disturbingly pleasant one, even more so as the blunt finger pressed into him, rubbing the potion around the inside. "Fuck! Fuck!" spat Ron, hating how good that felt. [Oh, relax and enjoy it, Ronniekins!] "You vould prefer to try out for Chudley Cannons vearing diaper?" "Shut it, Krum," replied Ron as Viktor's finger withdrew. I was just imagining all that, right? :D :D :D
Author's Response: Oh, was that in there?
Yeah, I wanted to hint at slashiness generally, as a lot of my readers like it, and I'd started thinking that I wanted to set the parts in play for Trio.
But I really wasn't thinking then that Viktor would be a factor in the Trio. I'm starting to re-think that. I do like my version of Viktor, and he is awfully popular...